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we think there's physical explanation

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okay and they would have reasonable

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grounds for that because in most cases

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there would be however I tccs are more

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powerful in this respect okay because

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you know the starting point you know the

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origin of the causal chain you can

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identify the point where that chain

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disappears from the physical universe

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and you can identify the point where it

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comes back in it's a lot easier to

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measure and observe and tell what's

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going on there and that's why in fact

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the ESP experiments and and other side

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related experiments that involve I tccs

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are so powerful which is why the

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physicals are scared to death of them

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I've been reading reading physicalist

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literature for a long time and these

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folks won't even look at the evidence

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because they know what the implications

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are if they acknowledge that this stuff

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is real and so they refuse to even

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accept the evidence without even

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investigating it for the most part

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they'll rely on third-party skeptic

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assessments of us and stuff and assume

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that that's that that's accurate okay so

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that's the first part that's the first

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way that psy is essentially essential to

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preserving the whole idea of

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consciousness as and as consciousness in

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itself okay so here's part 2 i'm going

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to hit this fairly quickly it does a

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further thing for us ok we are usually

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think in terms of consciousness in terms

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of being awake and aware and all that i

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refer to that as conscious awareness we

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also have of course the subconscious and

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maybe the unconscious I don't want going

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to all of that but we've got conscious

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worse in some cut subconscious and we're

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used to thinking in that dichotomy kind

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of a dualistic way of thinking about

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consciousness okay and I think we make a

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mistake in dividing those things and it

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allows the physicalist actually some

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leverage when we do that and this is the

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mistake that Susan Blackmore makes in

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that she focuses only unconscious

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awareness as consciousness when I think

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we need to include both of them and this

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was actually mentioned yesterday and

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I've already forgotten who talked about

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it talked about having a broader notion

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of consciousness where where the whole

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human mental life whether it's above or

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below the liminal threshold is regarded

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as

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conscious this consciousness and I think

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we need to address it that way and I'll

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explain why okay first of all I'm going

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to give you some remote viewing examples

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because they'll illustrate my point and

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plus you'll think they're cool I hope ok

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so this is the famous example from

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Stargate this was the famous typhoon

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submarine session that Jill McMonagle

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did they were given a coordinate

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geographic coordinate and they started

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describing this big building which was

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the goal now we know what the building

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looked like we didn't know was going on

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inside of his this huge massive building

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the Soviets built in a shipyard Nicola

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Peninsula it's about a quarter of a mile

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from the water jasa they joined no and

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national security council was afraid

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they were building a fleet size aircraft

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carrier in there that's how big the

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building was ok and that would have

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changed the balance of power those are

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all kinds of worries about it so

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somebody on the council a staffer on the

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council knew about the RV program and

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tasked the program with trying to find

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out what was in the building so they

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described the building through these

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sketches and then once they had drawn

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convincing sketches of what the building

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look like and shown that through ESP

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they could recognize it they show them

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the picture of it and then they went on

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to describe the insides of it ok there's

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actual building today thanks to is it

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perestroika the fall of the Berlin Wall

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whatever we can now get pictures of

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these places ok there's the building

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again ok and there's a satellite view of

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it ok there's a there's a viewer sketch

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of it based on just RV sort of

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information and how it looks and then

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they said that inside this building are

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these things that either are pregnant

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kazoos or submarines ok more diagram so

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I'm going to I'm going to kind of burn

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through these because I'm running short

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on time picture of what the inside of it

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actually looks as compared to hit what

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they sketched remember this is all RV

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data and you'll explain how significant

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that is in a minute ok again they

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describe this huge crane and all that

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and then joven want to go drew this

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sketch of the submarine and described it

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ok and he put the missile tubes in front

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of the sales the sale or the conning

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tower which at that time was heresy

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considered heresy by naval architect

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because you never put missile tubes in

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front of the sail on the sub because as

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when you open the tubes the watered porn

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in right okay well anyway and he

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described this to this

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is being huge okay and here actually

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shows you a picture of a typhoon tied up

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at the very dock many years later next

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to Kiev class whatever you want to call

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it surface combatant it's kind of an

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aircraft carrier and you can see that

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sub is huge because this is an aircraft

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carrier sized vessel here and that sub

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is huge ok so anyway ten months after

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the last remote viewing session they

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floated out the typhoon the NSC had

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thought the remote viewing stuff was

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bogus nobody in the Western world knew

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what was in that building and yet when

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the sub came out they found out that it

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was exactly as Joe mcmonagle and the

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other viewer that worked on this had

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described it you can see how the

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computer there's a few differences but

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you can understand how those would be

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these are the things that were correct

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there are three to four submarines

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inside the building construction was of

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a huge submarines tubes in front of sale

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I got one minute to go so if would be

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launched in several months okay so

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here's some more examples you see how

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close those come this is an ARV you

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wouldn't know what that was looking at

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it until you saw the feedback photo now

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I've got 13 sessions on the same target

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at in different years all done

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double-blind ok so this target is thick

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gray structure colors involved gray

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brown and ochre that was the target

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here's another session on the same thing

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see the multiple structures here is

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showing whoops yeah also same color same

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consistencies and stuff there you go

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this one was quite striking tah also

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talking about sandy and rocky ok the

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point of this is that all of these

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things these colors everything involved

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qualia they involve conscious experience

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and yet that is emerging from the

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subconscious remote viewing is clearly

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implicated in subconscious experience

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that stuff's coming up from it's time

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for Q&A ok so here's my final point two

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seconds ok according to black more

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consciousness vols perception cognition

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phenomenal experience intentionality the

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RV shows that that stuff's going on

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below the liminal threshold as well we

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need to we specify consciousness to

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narrowly and limiting helps the

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physicalist by limiting our

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specification of consciousness and so

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two ways ESP helps as evidence that's

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physicalism is false

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and that specification of consciousness

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is too narrow we can support

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so information if you're interested here

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you go okay thank you very much thank

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you Paul Jim beekler i agree with almost

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everything you say but i would go and I

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think you did a very good job some

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things you say I say my own writings but

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I would go a bit further and that you're

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talking about physicalism but there's a

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further separation physical world ah

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things that are material or physical but

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not everything is physicals material we

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also have electromagnetic and

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gravitational fields which are

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completely physical but non material so

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I would posit the consciousness is

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actually a field struck or life as a

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field structure mind is electromagnetic

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structure and conscious and self is

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magnetic potential structure a

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completely non material but still

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physical okay first of all I agree if

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I'd had 45 minutes I take on further to

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ok but physicalism actually does include

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sy said energy matter and energy so

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physicalism materialism and physicalism

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is terms are almost isomorphic there are

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some nuances that I don't think make a

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big difference but but nonetheless

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physical physical isms kind of the

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modern term from materialism however I

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would disagree with your premise about

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electromagnetism in mind all of the

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evidence the really strongly attested

220
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evidence seems to indicate that there is

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not that that there are non

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electromagnetic components to sy

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phenomenon and I think Dean would

224
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:30,580
probably support that we'll find out a

225
00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:33,250
little bit there was a long series of

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experiments done at essar I some stuff

227
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done at saic where they tried to find

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out if there's an electromagnetic

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component to it and their final

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00:08:44,550 --> 00:08:43,300
conclusion was that there is not oh it

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00:08:52,050 --> 00:08:44,560
rustles up here would you agree with

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okay all right so anyway that's we could

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00:08:57,970 --> 00:08:56,149
have a big debate about that and there

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00:09:01,780 --> 00:08:57,980
are on-going debates but that would be

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my response to that so okay the other

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00:09:08,170 --> 00:09:04,329
question yeah hi my name is Kenny Arnett

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I am very impressed with your analysis

238
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of causal chains and bears some

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resemblance to some things I've done in

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the past and I'd like to suggest to you

241
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that there are some other sources of

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white crows in addition to sigh and

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those would be the near death experience

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after death communications and evidence

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of reincarnation okay so i think that

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there's more out there that we could

247
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bring into this kind of analysis it kind

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of depends on how you parse the word

249
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:34,279
sigh and when i use it i kind of include

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those things as well since we really

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don't know the etiology of those things

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right I kind of embraced anything that

253
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seems to go beyond physical domain under

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the category okay another question Henry

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Bauer in a causal chain going from one